Goodtalk

High Conflict People

Founders of the High Conflict Institute text about Narcissists and others

Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, Jess. Think of Managing the relationship the Rather than changing it.
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Does that make sense, Jess? It's possible to have a healthy relationship with her if you learn to manage the relationship and have it more on your terms where you keep it as arms length as you need it and practice some calming and shifting and problem solving skills with her. It's also important to take care of yourself as well.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
A kind word. Focusing on something light to talk about. Often helps.
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
And learn what your triggers are. If this person gets under your skin, practice how you will respond to those insults. you have a choice to react and get upset and act defensively, or you can think about her brain sort of being on fire because it's feeling defensive and then do the opposite of what you feel like doing. Which is to respond with what we'd like to call EAR which is short for empathy attention and respect. That is what she is craving more than anything else and when you give that to her it will help her feel calmer and less defensive.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Here’s tip #2: Analyzing Options or choices. Get the person thinking about what they can do now rather than talking about the past.
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Bill, why do they focus on the past?
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
They’re very defensive, so they’re trying to prove they were right and you were wrong. Just steer clear by changing the subject.
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Most importantly and maybe the hardest thing to do, is to not take their insults and jobs personally. you have to remind yourself that it's not about you. Rather, it's about there fear driven personality.
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Jabs.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Tip #3: Respond to hostility or misinformation by keeping it Brief, Informative, Friendly and Firm (BIFF). We have a book about this.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Bill, is this about responding to nasty emails and text messages and social media posts?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
almost everyone I know has received one of these nasty hostile personal attack type of emails with all caps and exclamation marks. And it's very tempting to want to respond with something not so nice. But you've developed method called the bit method to respond to people and personal attacks..

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
BIFF method I meant to say.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, I’m giving four tips in response to Kelli’s question what to do. These nasty emails, etc, really wear people down. So BIFF responses save time and tension, and you can feel good about yourself and what you said.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
BIFF is very effective at containing conflict rather than escalating it.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Tip #4: Setting Limits. That can be a whole other discussion!

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Yes indeed. Setting limits and boundaries is the toughest thing to do with high conflict personalities. But they are the people who need them the most, but we are afraid to give them boundaries because we walk on eggshells around them.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Since we’re running out of time, I wanted to say for first-timers it went really fast! I hope people found it interesting. We can talk about this for hours.
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
it's really a paradigm shift and doing the opposite of what you're used to doing with people and the opposite of what you feel like doing. Because you may feel like you're out of control or you are fed up about them getting under your skin and you're just going to react instead of respond.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Thanks, Megan!
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Thank you!
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Until next time. 😊
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Happy Thursday! And Happy BIFFing!
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May 16

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Hi Megan let’s do this every week at four Pacific time that is.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Today I want to talk about my new book. Ask me some questions about it.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Hi everyone. Good to have you with us today talking about Phil's new book, why we elect narcissist and sociopaths and how we can stop.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
I'll ask the first question, Bill. What prompted due to write the book?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yeah but remember it’s Bill BILL.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
I was seeing HCP’s parentheses that’s why conflict people in interpersonal disputes and now in politics were saying the same thing. I wanted people to understand the personalities involved.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
What exactly were you seen in terms of high conflict personality to politics?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
So narcissists are pretty common these days but I don’t think people understand what that means when they run for office.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Narcissists are attracted to the attention, the power, and the appearance of superiority they get by being politicians.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Yes, it seems that they're driven to be at the top. They need to be empowered they need to have all the light shining on them. They need to be seen as all good and all powerful, correct

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
But not all people with narcissistic traits become high conflict politicians. It’s the ones preoccupied with targets of blame and a lack of empathy that are the most dangerous.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Yes, it seems that they're driven to be at the top. They need to be empowered they need to have all the light shining on them. They need to be seen as all good and all powerful, correct?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes. It’s ironic that the people who most want to be at the top usually aren’t qualified. You see that in office work groups, business leaders and politicians. The more desperate they are to be at the top, the more they shouldn’t be.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
So that would lead one to ponder the question of healthy narcissism versus unhealthy narcissism. Is there such a thing as healthy narcissists being in office?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
I have difficulty with the idea of “healthy narcissism”. I think we should save narcissism to mean there is a problem. And the problem usually means that they don’t learn. They don’t self reflect. Successful leaders self reflect and are always learning.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Valid point!

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
What is the danger of having someone with a high conflict personality in office or in leadership?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
The danger is that HCP’s have targets of blame. And are willing to hurt those targets of blame just to make themselves look superior.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
When they get into positions of power they get more encouraged to be more aggressive

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
And they do it all without thinking about other people. And I think that's where we get mistaken. we think that people have inside into their behaviors or they really don't act this way all the time but with a true narcissistic personality they do act this way all the time. It is their internal operating system correct?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
That was meant to be insight instead of inside.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes yes. People think that they are planning their behavior, but in fact they are usually acting automatically out of their narcissistic personality.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Bill, in the book you propose a new theory about high conflict personalities and politics. Can you give us a little background on that?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
My theory is that these personalities were functional I thousand years ago or more, when you had to be highly adversarial to succeed or even survive. Now we need to cooperate to survive or we will blow her selves up.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Interesting. And what about the crises they create?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Over the past thousand years we have shifted from one individual personality as the king, and set limits on that with constitutions and collaboration.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
So no more Game of Thrones?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Kidding!

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Since high conflict Personalities don’t have good problem-solving skills they have to create crises so that people will be looking for a hero rather than an expert at governing. So we should keep Game of Thrones as entertainment and not mix it up with modern government.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Good idea.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Part of the problem today is that narcissist and sociopaths seduce populations by saying there is a terrible crisis, and evil villain, and a superhero that will solve problems without sweating. We have confused entertainment with good government.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
When people see the title of your book I'm sure they naturally think of the current state of politics here in the US. What are you hearing from your readers? I know that when I've taken the book out in public or on an airplane, a lot of people ask questions about it and automatically think of our current president. I would imagine you're getting the same type of feedback?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Today’s problems or complex and can’t be solved by one hero. The best politicians are those who can work together to solve problems and don’t need to be the center of attention.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, people often think about today’s politics. And we do have high profile politicians who seem to have these traits. But I try to emphasize that this is about more than one person. This is about a trend worldwide. And the trend appears to be growing so that the next narcissist in charge could be even worse. It’s not an issue of politics. Left or right. They can pop up anywhere.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
In the book I try to emphasize how to avoid giving power to narcissist and sociopaths. To me that’s the most important rather than focusing on just one person.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Very interesting. I think of the president of the Philippines who basically authorized people to just gun down anyone they suspected to be a drug dealer or maybe even drug addict. I would imagine he qualifies for high conflict personality? A narcissistic person possibly? He definitely showed all or nothing thinking.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Except with that question about the Philippine president, I've just focused on one person. Oops!

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, I include him as one of the HCP’s in the book. Interesting, he was considered to be elected with a lot of use of fake news on social media. Some have called the Philippines the center of social media manipulation of politics.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
That’s OK, he’s one of many. But they all seem to follow a similar pattern that I called the fantasy crisis dryer atThat’s OK, he’s one of many. But they all seem to follow a similar pattern that I called the fantasy crisis triad.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Talk more about the fantasy crisis triad.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
What I want people to learn is to watch out for a fantasy crisis, because that’s how narcissist and sociopaths gain power. They tell you to look over there and help out someone else is, While they are acting worse themselves.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
so what you're saying is they're shining the light on someone else's bad behavior well they're getting away with their own bed behavior making themselves look pretty awesome?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
For example, in the book, I talk about how Hitler claimed that a fire in the parliament building made it necessary for him to take over the role of the legislature. I talk about how star one that’s Joseph Stalin sad peasants were hiding Grain so he needed to force collectivization on the population.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, it’s a process of distraction which people fall for if they don’t need to watch out for that. If it’s somebody else’s fault, you always have to also look at the person pointing the finger

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
This is how people with no experience at leader ship or governing can get elected. Because they convince everyone that an outside hero is needed rather than someone with experience at leader ship.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
And you only need a hero in a crisis. Otherwise you need someone with skills.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Makes sense. It's incredible to think that people don't see through these types of leaders.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Maybe next week we can talk about how we can avoid electing these types of leaders in future.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, that’s my goal, to educate people about these patterns so that they can spot HCP’s whenever they run for office, which can be anywhere because we seem to be getting more HCP’s this this time everywhere. If people read the book they will see the patterns that they can spot quite easily.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
The more people learn about HCP’s in daily life the more they will be able to stop putting them in positions of power in relationships, at work, and in politics.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
And just to be clear, this book is not anti-one party or the other. it's really about to spotting patterns of behavior and using your radar to make sure you don't vote for the wrong personality, correct?

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Avatar for Question from JenK
Question from JenK
Hi Bill and Megan. I have a question. Without giving the whole book away, are there specific things the public can do to avoid putting this type of personality in office?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, and there is a Square card in the back of the To help anyone choose for themselves. Talk

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Score cars.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Hi JenK. Bill, do you have a quick answer?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
For Jen, that is?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Use the score card in the back of the book to spot them!

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
I think that’s it for today but we are up for questions about HCP’s in any area of life over the coming weeks at four on Thursdays Pacific time. Bye for now.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Hope that helps, Jen k! That's all we have time for today. We will be back next Thursday with more on high conflict personalities. Have a great week!
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Avatar for Question from JenK
Question from JenK
Thanks so much! Can’t wait to get the book and have my scorecard ready for the next election!
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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Let us know what you think. we love feedback!
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Avatar for Question from Mitzi
Question from Mitzi
I am anticipating a high conflict divorce. My husband has been diagnosed as a narcissist, and is very prominent in the community. I am his fourth wife. We have no children together, and will be married 3 years. How should I prepare?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Hi Mitzi. Sorry that you have to go through something like this. It can be pretty tough. You might want to check out a book that Bill Eddy wrote called splitting: protecting yourself while divorcing someone with borderline or narcissistic personality disorder.

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Question from Mitzi
Ok thank you

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Megan Hunter
You're welcome.
May 20

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Time for more talk about dealing with narcissists.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Happy Sunday!

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, people talk a lot about Narcissists these days, but there’s a big difference between every day traits and narcissistic personality disorder.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Today we're going to talk about the difference between people who truly have narcissistic personality disorder and those that just have kind of every day narcissistic traits.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes. Most people recognize self-centered or self absorbed people. But NPD is much more serious.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
How so?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
NPD means the person lacks empathy, how’s the drive to be seen as superior, and is invested in insulting and demeaning those closest to them.

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Bill Eddy
This isn’t what people usually wanted to get into.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
So you're talking about those who have narcissistic personality disorder, correct

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes. That’s NPD For short short.

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Bill Eddy
Most people get close to someone with NPD because they were a charmed by them. But that’s just where it starts. Then they become their target.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
I think if some people that I've been around to seem to have a pretty high image of themselves, but they wouldn't necessarily qualify for what we considered to be a narcissistic high conflict personality. Someone with the true narcissistic personality disorder is driven by a fear of feeling inferior, so they go through life needing to be seen as superior in every aspect of life. And the moment they feel inferior, they need to become demanding insulting demeaning, or just a complete pain in the you know what.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes. White people often don’t realize is that that high self opinion also means they have to put down other people, especially those around them

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Bill Eddy
I meant while people…

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
just yesterday I had a conversation with a 31-year-old woman who recently left a relationship with someone who she considered to have narcissistic personality disorder. her boyfriend was very charming and swept her off her feet in the beginning. But it wasn't long before she started to recognize that everything had to be all about him all the time, and that he especially lacked empathy for her or for anyone else. But what I found interesting about her experience with him with that she noticed that she was severely overreacting, way outside of her norm when she was around him..

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Megan Hunter
I think you meant while people, not white people... Just FYI for everyone.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
People are surprised at how they change their own behavior around someone with NPD. They start becoming a negative advocate without even realizing it. But negative advocates off and leave when they realize what’s going on.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
I hope people will ask some questions about this of us.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Yes, people who become negative advocates for a narcissist eventually find themselves drained, exhausted, and feeling like they're living in chaos. Often, they lose themselves by just being in a relationship with a narcissist. It makes sense since for a narcissist they have to feel superior all the time, so it has to be about them all the time.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
People often say that being around a narcissist is like being in a room where the narcissist takes all the air and doesn’t leave any for anybody else.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Do you want to explain negative advocates?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
I don't know how it is for you, Bill, when you're around someone with NPD. But I know for myself, that I am almost like a narcissist drug sniffing dog. Lol. My fighter fight center can pick up a narcissist very quickly, and my heart rate goes up and I feel like I just want to get the heck out of there. Do you have a similar experience?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Oh I see you just asked if I would explain about negative advocates. essentially a negative advocate is someone who has been fooled by the narcissist charm, and they begin advocating for this person's personality for their behaviors and their way of thinking.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes! That sounds familiar. I think that’s true for most people. But they often don’t realize why. By learning personality awareness, they can spot narcissist a lot sooner.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
What would be your top one or two tips on how to spot a narcissist?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
One is that they have to talk about them selves and appeared to have no interest in anyone else.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
The second is that they are constantly putting other people down.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Another would be bragging about all the important people they know and how special they are.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Let's talk about your first tip. What's the difference between someone who is just insecure and someone who really has narcissistic traits when it comes to talking about themselves?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Within half an hour someone who’s just insecure and talking a lot will be interested in the other people around them. NPD can go more than half an hour just talking about them selves.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Would you agree that putting people down is the second most common trait?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Yes I agree that putting people down is the second most common trait. For a narcissist, feeling inferior or less than anyone else is just not optional for them so it, by nature for them, is common everyday life. So if you are around a narcissist, you will be put down, demeaned, yelled at, or insulted in some way.

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Megan Hunter
A quick question for you Bill.

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Megan Hunter
What happens when a narcissist feels like someone else in the room is getting more attention than them?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
You’ll often hear them start the next sentence with “Well I...” Then they try to one up the prior speaker. They have to compete with whoever spoke before of them to show that they are superior to whoever spoke before them.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Just about everybody knows somebody who does this a lot.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
It's so annoying, and so exhausting to be around someone who makes it about themselves all the time. So what do you recommend when you find yourself around someone with these traits? Do you interrupt them and tell them to stop talking about themselves?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
If they truly have NPD, telling them to stop talking about themselves will blow up in your face. Instead, it’s better to try to say something else or end the conversation.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
People with personality disorders are highly defensive. That’s why you don’t want to criticize criticize them directly.

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Megan Hunter
Can you give an example?

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Megan Hunter
That is, an example of what to say to someone?

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
With someone with NPD, if you pointed out to them they’ve experience” narcissistic injury.” So instead say “I’ve got To go now. There somewhere I have to be.” That avoids making it personal which triggers the defensiveness.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Essentially, they dish it out all the time but they can’t take it.

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Megan Hunter
Yes, I found that to be very true. If you keep things external instead of personal, it helps to avoid their automatic natural pattern of taking everything personally.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Have you noticed this is a common problem In high conflict Divorces?

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
but this can be the hardest thing to do because it's human nature to want to explain yourself or to tell someone that it really isn't all about them, but like you said this can backfire or blow up in your face very quickly.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
Yes, you have to get comfortable restraining yourself in the situations.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Yes this is a very common problem in high complex divorces. In fact one of the most common participants in high conflict divorce for a variety of reasons. One is they feel disrespected or insulted by their spouse or they don't feel like they can be in control or superior so this causes a lot of relationship problems which lands them in divorce court at some point and they're have to win all the time personality trait makes relationships extremely difficult as well.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
I think we see a lot of divorces involving someone with NPD, because it’s so hard to live with them.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
The most discouraging thing from my perspective is there's not a lot of hope for treatment for someone with NPD. That's why it's imperative for parents to raise their children with the right balance of nurturing but not indulging and over spoiling a child. You don't want to run the risk of creating a next generation narcissist.

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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
This is probably a good time to mention that we have several books that include narcissists in divorce, the workplace, and politics.

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Bill Eddy
And raising children not to be excessively self-centered is a good starting place. We need to teach empathy for others, not just for ourselves.

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Megan Hunter
Good point! Empathy is vital to healthy relationships and narcissists are seriously lacking empathy.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
It looks like our time is up for today but people can go to our website for more information: HighConflictInstitute.com.

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Avatar for Megan Hunter
Megan Hunter
Have a great week everyone! See you next week.
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Avatar for Bill Eddy
Bill Eddy
And we should let people know we have a lot of empathy for them if they are dealing with a narcissist at home, at work, or anywhere. Have a good week bye-bye
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